The Linguistic Justice Project
The Linguistic Justice Project is a space to share effective ways to support multilingual students, along with ideas, current knowledge, misconceptions, and research on language acquisition and multilingualism. To do so, teachers, policy creators, school district leaders, parents, language specialists, professors, and students will share their language journeys and reflect on the systems we have to advocate for and support multilingualism and the systems we are yet to have.
The Linguistic Justice Project
Advancing Multilingual Learners Through the Lense/Experiences of a Reading Specialist
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Berenice, a reading specialist shares how she empowers multilingual students, effective learning strategies, and systemic biases. In this episode Berenice shares her story, her background and more.
All right, welcome to another episode of I have a little musiquita, the linguistic justice podcast project, actually. And I am excited to have another episode. I am learning how to do these episodes and I'm having a lot of fun. Today I have a special guest. Um, and she is a reading specialist. Her name is Berenice, but I don't remember your last name, Berenice. Amaya Gonzalez. Amaya Gonzalez, perdoname. No, no te preocupes. Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Um well, thank you for inviting me. This is my first time participating in this podcast or in any podcast. So when you approached me, I was like nervous, but at the same time, it's a challenge. And um I think our background and all multilingual learners are always challenging themselves, right? And with I mean, knowing or not knowing. Um, so um I am a mom, I am a wife, and my name is Berenice del Rosario, Amaya Gonzalez, but you know, it's like very long, so many people call me Berenice. A few people um ask me to if they can anglicize my name, so they call me Amaya because I don't give them permission to anglicize my name, so that's me. And wow, I am actually um a product of English, uh the English program as an the adult program in the United States, because I started learning English as an adult. Uh technically, not uh an adult like 20, 20 years old. 20 years old as an adult, yes. Right? Uh well legal is 21 for most of the things that we do here, right? But 18, so anything about 18, you're an adult, but it's still like a teenager, so 20 is not 18 anymore. So that is an adult. But yeah, so um that is uh my beginning, you know. My English um learner starts there. What brought you here to tell you what they brought me here? Um I don't know if I could share that with you. Oh, yeah, you know. No, um I married. So I married a person who lived here and we were supposed to live in Mexico, and we're supposed to just come here for you know the honeymoon. But his businesses or his um legal stuff that he had to deal with did not solve within the few years, so I eventually just gave up and said, okay, I need to learn English and we'll stay here.
SPEAKER_02So thank you for sharing a little bit of your story. And I know that you are a bilingual reading specialist. I am also, I got that uh certification to become a reading specialist, but I never practiced it because there I just didn't take that opportunity when it came up. Uh, why did you decide to become a reading specialist?
SPEAKER_00Well, I didn't decide per se. I just let the you know the flow, right? Your educational path, like if you ask my family, they're always like, Are you still at school? Like, are you still studying? So I always feel like I need to learn more. And so I became a, you know, I went to the bachelor's to get a bachelor's degree, and then my teaching credential, and then my master's, and then after the master's, the opportunity to participate in the Oregon State University, dual language certification, and the ESOL endorsement was offered, and I applied and I was selected, and that's how I I got my dual language certification. But uh during my master's, remember that uh Concordia Portland? Yeah. Well, I was, I think, if not the last generation, but the generation before last. Um, and I got my um degree from uh Concordia in um in reading as a reading interventionist. So the bilingual third comes because A, we speak uh, you know, another language other than English. So um, and I have my dual certification.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I I have and for this podcast, I'm hoping that we can talk a little bit about your journey or your experiences as a bilingual reading specialist because you don't you don't um I'm I don't think there's a lot of them. I think that big districts that have the dual language programs have bilingual reading specialists, but smaller districts are sometimes um use those teachers to teach rather than to become specialist. Um, and talking about bilingual reading specialists, what do you think it means for multilingual students to become proficient at reading beyond what the school measures it is that it is? Oftentimes, like when they're done in kindergarten, the goal is for them to read at a level four, and that's like four words at a page, maybe, and like six, seven pages. Um, so what does it mean to be multilingual and proficient?
SPEAKER_00Well, you're there are so many layers right now and trying to uh think. And you may hear my my daughters getting uh banana bread in the back in the background because I'm in the kitchen. But I apologize for that. No, this is the real life for many many educators, but anyway, um it is an honor, actually. Um, I really believe that it is an honor for me every day that I work with a student who's a multi-league multilanguage learner. Um, that I mean I work with you know all my students and but especially multilinguage learners because I observe all the strengths that they bring. Um that oftentimes do not get the opportunity to show in the classroom for whatever reason. I don't want to pick one particular educator, one particular circumstance, or there are many vector reasons why their strengths are not um, I don't want to say value, but they're not seen. And so um they start smiling and they start feeling competent and they share their skills, like OSC, their rich vocabulary, you know, the lexicons are oh so not only authentic, but like on untapped. And so anyway, that's one of the things that I really I really appreciate of and value from my my my work. They they say yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02No, I was gonna say I do too. That's what brought me to work with multilingual learners at the high school as an ELD teacher. It was because they're so amazing and um they also need to believe how amazing they are, like they need to see it. And as I was hoping the students would see how amazing they are and value their assets, I would also think of myself like, come on, this is amazing. Like I had to also remind myself and remind my students at the same time so we can both see like that we're that we're bringing assets, valuable assets. And um, and sometimes those assets need to be acknowledged by others so that we believe them. And then when we don't have those people like acknowledging those for us, then we have to do so much work and struggle with um, you know, like, is this right, is this wrong, you know, and that confidence. I think that as a myself, as a person who lives in a small community where um multilingualism is not celebrated as often as it should be, um, it it's it was a a little bit of a battle and not a like an internal head battle, but at the same time, I want my students to like be feel like feel awesome about it. So like both.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and just remember that uh it's a load. Uh just remember that being a multilanguage learner um from the asset view point of view, um, it's like late 80s, mid 80s, something like that, as as uh people start, you know, pushing the boundaries and using the legal systems to advocate like legal cases, right? And so um as we people of uh, you know, not I don't want to just focus on people of color because we're you know multilingual learners, um uh people who speak more than one language become more educated and and become professors, then we we have lived that the battle of the monolingual story or the monolingual lens. So we need to get more and we we tend to advocate and create safe spaces for our students. And I think that is why that's how I perceive all the changes that are happening in education. Um, the more, the more people who speak more than one language become educators, then we create those alliances and collaborations, just like you and me right now, you know, creating the safe space and collaboration to share our expertise because we both are living the experience of what being a multilingual learner in this country, or in my case in the metro area, in your case, in in the you know, smaller area um looks like. It may sound the same, but it looks different, right? And so we have to find those patterns that make us um keep fighting forward. Not I don't like the word fighting, but keep pushing forward to make those safe spaces for our multilinguage learners.
SPEAKER_02I really like that you said creating safe spaces because I have kids and I have a teenager and a one-year-old. And for my teenager, um, he's he's met me as a multilingual teacher and um and that's of color, you know, a color than someone who speaks the same language as he does. But he hasn't met anyone else that in the teaching world in this rural community. But creating those safe spaces, of course, on mom, he's not gonna go to my safe space if I create one. But I wish there were more people so he could go and uh you know experience that. But those safe spaces become a priori in rural communities like the one where I live, because it's a space que podemos usar para hablar inglés and to come together, to think what's next, what are your goals? Like you can make that space how whatever you want according to the needs of the students or the goals of the students. And that's I think one of my favorite parts of working with teenagers um that are multilingual, that look like me, that we can that we share this same language. And I I love that. I love the creating space.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so when when I work with students, you know, I also we acknowledge um both languages, right? Like, and I try to bridge that connection, like look what you know, and and this is how it looks like in English. So uh make um creating the bridge to for them to uh linguistics, right? Like metalinguistic approach and all that fancy vocabulary that we go to college to learn, and how does it look like in a young student for them? It's just have like two texts, right? Two similar texts, uh, and I'm talking about uh emergent um uh emergent uh learner. Um so because they don't come empty. Well, in the case with those teenage uh teenagers, they don't come and like their brain is so rich, right? They already like they already have um the skills to for RC language. They already have the skills of even if they didn't go to school, but they already have the vocabulary. And so when you're just making um, depending on the student, if they already have their background knowledge and education, they have some educational foundation, then they can use the print to um to analyze their language, and they can see, you know, like common patterns and you know, the cognate, which is just similar words, what are real cognates, what are not real cognates, the meaning, and extract meaning from one document uh from one language to the other. And so they're doing that cognitive load, the thinking instead of the teacher. You're just like their guiding their learning. Um when it's a very young child, and as an interventionist, imagine um I if they speak Spanish, it's easier, right? Because we have materials and and the knowledge because I speak Spanish. But um when they don't speak Spanish and or they come from, let's say Afghanistan, for example, where I don't speak them, I don't speak um their languages. And so what do I do? Um, how do I value their knowledge without me knowing? So I I try to look for texts in the language to see if they can read it. Most of the times they know. Um and so by making that, making them aware of you can read in your language. So let's just look at the picture so you can help me describe what you see. And I just want them to feel proud of the language. And so, and then I start teaching them the English. But first, we spend the first five minutes of the intervention making them proud of who they are, and if they don't know how to read um the characters or they don't know the alphabet, which is seldom the case, but there is something positive that they can bring to the table. There is something meaningful that they can share with me, and it just brings their learning to a different level.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for sharing that. That's important. The I really like how you said to make make them feel seen, valued, and that connection, it's really important for what's next. And the learning flows a little bit better that way. Well, the next question that I have is what are it's an important question about misconceptions. Oftentimes, um again, for me, in smaller school districts, rural, uh, and teachers with less less experience with multilingual learners, there's a lot of misconceptions that educators I work with have. What have you come across? What misconceptions do you know about or have you come across that educators hold about bilingual reading development? And how how do they show in your practice?
SPEAKER_00So you know, I have seen some changes, but there are a few scenarios where I just um have to breathe. I have to breathe a few times before I um acknowledge the person. Uh when I usually get um not irked, but it it moves me emotionally when I hear that how do I teach those students? Or but I don't know how to teach those students as like I have the students, my students, but those like that little separation. Um it's like oh maybe sometimes we have to address that is just your classroom instead of the students. This is my classroom, and all of them are my students. Um those are the things that I just listen because they don't have uh awareness of what they're saying. So I just kind of rephrase. So you're saying that um you don't have the skills yet to blah blah blah. Or am I hearing you correctly? Let me help you understand. Uh trying to rephrase what they're saying, sometimes they I put it back on the educator to rephrase their their thoughts. Um so you're asking for materials, or do you want me to show you strategies? Uh let me help me understand. So that's that's my approach with educators. But there are um the monolingual um view that the priority is to learn English. And yes, there is the priority. Yes, we want all of them to be successful in this country. Uh and it's not a linear process, right? And the urgency, like I think I remember sharing with you that when I arrived in this country, of course I have a huge lexicon in my first language. Of course, I have a back a background, um, scholastic background, academic uh background. And yet I felt that when I was, and I still sometimes, uh depending on who's speaking, who's talking, I feel that I I needed to catch up. There was a little like I need to learn. And depends on the situation. Sometimes I feel like an expert, and sometimes you're like, oh gosh, I still need to learn more. And so the misconception is that A, you learn to you finish learning a language, which is not the case, not even for English, but that is a huge misconception. Um, the other misconception is that students who mix both languages or two, three languages when they speak, that that is a deficit of um cognition, which is the opposite. That means you are really working, you're really using your whole brain connections to speak, you know, they sale una palabra primero, luego la otra. So when we have uh um the retrieval um theory, it's that when you start speaking um in one language, you're maintaining that language, you're really forcing your brain and maintaining that language. And then when you're comfortable, then you start like you know, you start um speaking a little less rigid, more um the social context, the social vocabulary, and then the English starts, and then you start in English and then you determinage in espanol or whatever other language, because your brain now is comfortable and it's just um using the fastest pathway to retrieve the word that will complete your sentence. And so that is another beautiful thing that I think the umilio Garcia will all um learn uh in that the translanguaging uh term instead of the code switching. But it is, it is our our multilanguage learners' daily life, is like um cooking, right? You're cooking and you find yourself looking for an ingredient but you don't have it, then you go and say, How can I what can I use to substitute that ingredient? So you know, you're start manipulating um the recipe because you become an expert on you know all the linguistic components. So anyway, so those are the little um a few of the misconceptions and also um if you speak of other misconceptions, it always comes with race. It doesn't all the box, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, unfortunately. Um and I think um I am also guilty. I don't I try to catch myself on that, but sometimes we make assumptions based on what we see on the media, like oh, or what we read online, and or misconceptions are wrong. Oftentimes, or when when I was um I went to a store one day and they asked me where where do I work and I stay at the school, and they immediately assume that I um I was uh an assistant. Oh, you're like your your teacher assistant there, like they gave me that role, you know, even it was something insignificant, but it's still not it was.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, sorry, hold on. I need to make sure that it's not connected. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, no, no worries.
SPEAKER_00Let me tag.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, keep going. I'm sorry. Oh no, no, I was just saying that even though it's something little, it kind of uh does a That's one of a couple of them that's happened to me and I'm an adult and I catch them. And if these misconceptions happen to young kids, like say kindergarten, first grade, or even teenagers at the high school, they don't catch them and they normalize them. And that's one thing that I find interesting when working with students. Like they don't think that misconceptions about them based on the stories that they tell me. There's nothing wrong with that according to them. But if you're listening to the adult and you're there, you might catch something that the students might not about misconceptions about their skills or their knowledge or what they know or what they come from when they only speak one language, especially at the high school.
SPEAKER_00You know what the saddest part that I have, I don't know if you have observed this in some classrooms. I walk into one classroom um to as I needed to give my one of my students a book that I personally bought. And uh it was uh I ordered her and uh it was from not Arab. Uh the he was I wish I had um written down that um language, but anyway, he was there it was for seed and uh because he knew how to read and this um my expertise uh because um they told me that he couldn't read. So I bought this book and so in his language, in his language, and so I and his eyes like were so oh I I wish I had a camera to catch up. He was so happy and he looked at me and he started reading the title and stuff, and and it was just beautiful. But before I I brought him out to to give him the book, he was sitting down just staring at the teacher while every other student was working. Um and I I tap him on the shoulder and say, Hey, what's going on? And he's like, Oh, it's because I I don't know English. And then the other student said, I he doesn't know English. And I oh okay. The teacher was then he wasn't participating, no, he was not participating. So anyway, so I said I have the book for you, so I asked permission if if he could walk out to for me to give him the book, and so the teacher said, Yeah, yeah, you can take him anytime, da-da-da. It's all yours, yeah. So I was like, holy lord. Anyway, so anyway, just that in itself was like second, um, but it just happened that the next day she this teacher was absent, right? I'm trying to not to say too much personal thing. So and so I went into the classroom as a substitute teacher, so because nobody um, you know, she requested a sub and nobody got the job. So anyway, so they're always asked, like, hey, who liked to cover for this? And so anyway, I just happened to end up for serving for this particular teacher. And so we had a conversation with the whole class, and like when they went, they asked, like, I remember someone said yesterday that um he didn't know English. So how many of you speak his language? And I said, Can you raise your hand? No, another hand went up. And I said, So how so you're expecting him to learn your language, but what are you doing to bridge that? Like he knows how to say a few phrases in English in English. So how can you invite him to participate in in your group discussions? Uh and so anyway, I put it back on them because I always believe in a community of learners, like we're all a class, we're all learners, and we can all support each other, right? So they came out with wonderful ideas that you know, like they can use Google Translate. They could not advertising for Google, uh, they're not paying me. But anyway, so they come up with different ideas, different scenarios, and then they're like, well, he can read the books in parsea. Maybe he can, maybe he can read aloud even if we don't understand, or he can tell us a word that is similar in English. So anyway, like, oh, so they started to see all his assets, they started to see all his strengths. And I was just like, yeah, that's exactly it is not easy. And I always use myself, right? So I told them, like, it was difficult for me to learn English. Like, you can hear my accent, you can hear that sometimes. Um, it really takes intentionality of me to pronounce certain words, but I'm not going to give up, right? I was I'm still learning. And so anyway, and then they started sharing, I wish I spoke another language. I, you know, and so they're trying to voice now their wishes instead of seeing him as like, oh, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_02He doesn't, he hasn't to like you know that I liked your story, and I think um that's one great example of what it takes to um feel make sure that others feel welcome and connected with each other. And yes, I think you're right, community learning it's one of the best ways to learn anything. And I love your example, and thank goodness where you were there, making sure that the kids um thought about it a little bit. I think that reflection Yeah, they needed a little bit of reflection, and hopefully that worked out and stayed consistent throughout the rest of the time.
SPEAKER_00It and I think that comes down to uh uh the work the educator does, right? The more you know, the more you seek learning, and it's not a goal, like I'm going to be a teacher, I finished being a teacher, I'm done, I know everything. Like, no, you don't know, it's just the beginning. You become an educator, just the beginning of your really learning experience.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for your story. For the next question that I have that um is um if you could, or before that, what instructional moves do you think help multilingual learners leverage their full linguistic repertoire while learning to read? Do you uh do you have like top two, top three strategies? You did mention bridging. I think that's uh one of the most effective ways to um help readers um see the connections between language. Is there another strategy that you recommend teachers or that you use in your daily practice of you seen other teachers use?
SPEAKER_00Well, it depends. It's not a very linear uh, you know.
SPEAKER_02No, no, it's it depends on the context, you're right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and one skill works for all. Um you have to really know your students. You have to know the students, you have to find where the skills are, what access they have, if they can um if you have this the benefit or the gift to have another student with more linguistic skills and they learn um in the target language, then then the um certain students use the the peer, you know, use peers to to to bridge that learn. So you're not the experts, but you know, you're trying to create um many experts in your classroom. So peer um peer-to-peer um learning is another way to bridge that um or to us to to support the students, the multilinguage learner.
SPEAKER_02If you could wave your magic wand and you would like all educators that work with multilingual learners to do with their multilingual learners, what's another thing that you would like them to do?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's a hard one. It's a hard question because it's not so first find out if they they know the alphabet, right? If if they if they come with that, if because I'm work as an intervention, I work with students who are to know them to know what they know, and then based on okay, so that one. Yeah, so you have you have to know assess, like do a little screen or what they know, if they know the alphabet sounds, or or they already know how to read, and if your focus is just for them to acquire another language, then use the their language, their heritage language, what they come from to access other learning. And it's easier when when we have a written language that have um similar words in in English, right? Um so you use your cognates, like I mentioned. You use um you can use sentence structure comparison. Um, so it just you work at the um grammar structure, but not just teaching them the verbs and isolation, the nouns in isolation, you use this, you are using a full, complete sentence for them to create a metalinguistic um awareness. And and because when you're not there to help them, they need to use those skills outside of the classroom.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for sharing that. Um what um commitments should school disks or school systems make? I'm sorry, Lali Mal, what commitments should school systems make if they truly want multilingual students to thrive as readers?
SPEAKER_00Uh um I think we always talk about more professional development, right? So we put that on the class, on the teacher, always a teacher, but then the teacher is like carrying the load, and where are the supports?
SPEAKER_02So, what supports do they have if uh that'll go along with professional development for teachers?
SPEAKER_00Um we need to value the cross-linguistic, uh the cross-linguistic approach. We have to value that it takes time. Um school districts panic the minute assessments or data is out there, um, yeah, and they want to fix that immediately, right? Like a like a pill, like, oh, take a pill for this, and you'll be fine. That is not approach, it takes time. Um I think for my my daughter is in a dual language um immersion program, and they have this uh commitment of kin from kindergarten through 12th grade to um receive the biliteracy um seal. So right there, how many years is that from kindergarten to 12? 13? 13 yeah, yeah, 13 years total. Yet we're asking our students, multi-language learner students who are learning English to do it in how many years? Like some states they have the early exit program and they only give them like access to three years or something like that. They went like super fast, you know. And so, no, it takes a long time. So I think the commitment and the should be the way multilanguage learners are assessed, that's how we assess their knowledge and and how do we capture their skills. And and I I think if we have to advocate for that, that would be at that level. Like how I was looking at the Oregon Department of Education. I'm going to switch a little bit about that. And again, the multilanguage learner page focuses on um the ESO, like learning English, right? Learning English. And yes, you've seen them validating their heritage language, and like, yes, that's awesome. And and I think that integration of family participation and learning more about their academic goals. And if they don't know about academic goals, then we teach them about academic goals. But again, we assess them and we're on those level one, two, three, or letters A, B, and C, whatever that um grading is, but still we're looking at what they haven't developed yet instead of what they know. So when teachers are giving a report to families, uh, we need to help them uh um interpret that that information, right? That on paper we have to give them not yet or developing and or progressing or whatever that later is. But what does that really mean? And so for our multilanguage learner families and their students, it's like not yet real or or developing that it's always a yes, it sounds like asset-based, but it's still working, it's focused on the English component instead of the heritage language. I don't know if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02No, it does, yeah. The report cards are confusing to read oftentimes, especially when um yeah, they have letters in uh elementary or yeah, letter or I don't know what they have actually.
SPEAKER_00Different letters in the new a new thing right now with proficient and proficient and all that stuff, or yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's different kinds of with grading per teacher too. Like this teacher does it differently. Well, this teacher does it differently. So there's a lot of variation too. Also, I think with grading, we when we grade, we have we come, we grade with bias too, unintentionally. Like, oh, she did it. Um, he needs to have um high score. Oh, he did it. Uh, he tried. He gets to have high score because he's learning he's learning English. So there's a little bit of that, like the lowering. I guess I'm talking about two different things, but the lowering expectations on students because they have uh the teachers that give those grades have bias, or the expectations can be lowered, or the students for what what whatever reasons.
SPEAKER_00And that's one of the things that I think we should have two different, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I think we should have two different kinds of um assessments for multilinguage learners. And and one is what skills they have to demonstrate um their competencies in the language of their heritage language. So it could be um they're always something good to say uh if they are great speakers, like if they haven't developed the print, but they can tell you stories or they can tell you um descriptive language, or they're good with details, if they, you know, if they're good helping others, like there is something good to evaluate in all the students. And the standard um base, I I think that is that is something that will um really make the grading at like make sure that the high expectations are there and how the educators will scaffold the learn the learning. I like that, uh standard base, but what I'm talking about is the the report card is not telling this whole story of your student. The report card is just a document that it's still and operates from the not yet. And I think the the classroom educator can needs to learn how to communicate that to the principal, to their other colleagues, to their other to the families, to all those stakeholders that I know this student well, and this student can do A, B, C, you know, all these skills. Um but the paper does not reflect that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point that the reflects the minimum students.
SPEAKER_00And so the changes, the commitments, and it's a reframing. We have to reframe um, and I know some some um people out there is gonna be like, yeah, but that's why they need to show that they know how to do these things. Like, yeah, but you're asking them to operate in just one language, right? Um, but how do we capture all the other skills and strengths?
SPEAKER_02That's hard. That's hard because we're so busy looking at what meeting the uh checking on the box as teachers because we have so many things to do on our plates. Uh, if we're not trained and it's not a natural thing for teachers to do, it might not get done.
SPEAKER_00No, and that is exactly what the need for multilanguage learners um becoming educators. Yeah, because we have lived that. And I'm not saying that you know, being a monolingual, um, it's not, I mean, I know many teachers who are monolingual whose art and passion and knowledge, it's amazing. And they look for support, they search out, um, and they understand, they they tell you, like, well, you know, this doesn't capture everything, but this is what I I mean, I otherwise, I don't think she's gonna be this year in our school, but she will say, like, yes, in paper, the student, if it was all in red, uh, and then, but let me show you what this student can really do. And so we have this conversation, and I said, Okay, so you have any worry about the student learning? No, I don't have any worries. The student is learning, yet in paper it looks all red, you know, like and but she had the other picture of strengths and skills that the student is developing that will translate to moving from red to, you know, uh which is now low achievement or whatever, to to the next level.
SPEAKER_02I like that it takes time, yeah. And we need to do more of that as educators, more highlighting the the good often, like very often. Yes, like it becomes yeah, rather than highlighting, well, you need to do this, this, and this. Yeah, it doesn't feel good when you always get uh um people talk about um yeah, the needs that you still need to accomplish rather than the the good thing. Um you answer many of my questions without me asking you. Thank you so much for the for um everything you said. You have great examples. Um, for the last question that I have, which you kind of answered already, if educators reframe bilingualism as brilliance, just kind of like you were saying, seeing the assets and students, um then how would literacy instruction change if we're seeing, yes, you're amazing, like where you ring is amazing, then would there be a change or would that be how would that look like?
SPEAKER_00Well, in the classroom, um, I'm thinking when I was back in the classroom because I was interventionist, you know, it's I don't have a classroom, I have several students um throughout the year and repetitive. So I don't have my classroom culture of learners, which I always um I create intentional um learning, uh my learning community without a curriculum telling me I have a good book um that I learned, I read and and I keep reading. I think it was in early 2000, something like that. And it was teaching children to care in the classroom. So I will change the title, right? Because I think everybody should care, but it was some, but anyway, um you have to create the spaces that it you're you should not be the center of attention. You should just be like a guide, right? And have the students like you. I love that right now they're like the mini lessons, the mini lessons. I'm like, oh, I used to do mini lessons without people telling me that I was doing mini lessons. But um you just go and follow very quick um like the the uh what is that when um apprenticeship. So you should do a tiny little demonstration and then let's go and you let them try it. And the same thing with learning languages. Um, you just target something and then let them practice uh instead of having the classroom teacher talk and talk and talk and model the language. I'm like, lady, I know you speak English or you speak whatever perfectly. I am amazed. Thank you, but that's not your job. Your job is not to talk. Let the students talk, let the students do the work, let the students do the heavy lifting. And yes, there are gonna be times where you're gonna be, there's gonna be some silence where it's uncomfortable for most of the uh the educators, you know, that what do you do with that silence when you put um when you give them a prompt, and then everybody's like, uh, okay, it's okay to have that silence because A, we need time for to process, but also um go back and rephrase your question or the prompt or whatever, or model, and there's gonna be one or two students who will get it and then use them to model and communicate in their own uh with their own language skills, with their own way of um of communicating the task, you'll be surprised how often we fail to explain something to a student, and then you get their own their own peer saying pretty much what the same thing, and they get it. And you're like, oh, they they have this kind of internal way of processing and thinking that they they align perfectly, but because we're adults, we're we're operating from a different plateau, and so anyway, but yeah, um that's a good idea. I mean having coming uh teachers talk less.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm guilty of that. I I like to talk a lot, but I I try to catch myself because I just like you explained, yeah, it's better when the teachers are facilitators and the students are the ones that are co leading the learning with each other. And I like it when the classroom's talking, not yelling. But talking, and there's a that means that there's a lot of language practice happening, and whatever language. Yeah, that's I mean, I wish I could do that more often.
SPEAKER_00I I really like it takes time in practice and and let the authentic teacher, let them know, let them know, hey, I want to try. This is my goal. You know, when we have goals for them, we we can share where we're learning, where what areas we're growing, and let them be your your partners. And you know, I always tell the students, today or this week, I'm going to focus on this. Uh, let me know. Um, and boy, they're so good at reminding you. Yeah, they're they're so good. So I um when I started working at the school, I remember that first day I called my husband, kind of crying, I don't like this call. I use a different word. The students are so I started labeling, you know, that rude, disrespectful, mean, all the words that you can think of. Uh my husband is monolingual English uh speaker. And so the parents already, I have three parents who told me that I'm this, I'm that, I'm not this. And so my husband is like, maybe that's why they need you there. You already identified the problem on your first day. Congratulations. I'm like, uh, so anyway, so when I get home, you know, when he told me that I had the skills that I already identified the problems and all that stuff, and there's like you'll find an area where you your skills can can make the change. So, what are you going to do? So he put it on me immediately. So having that thinking partner um really helps me, right? Um, in any learning, but the same thing with the students, having that partner giving the opportunity to talk, and you were saying, you know, like with like not having um without being loud and everything. And it reminded me about this um loud classrooms are where the learning is actually happening. Yeah. And but you just teach them like what are your expectations, and um when I, you know, you call them back every every few minutes, you call them back at like a check-in, and like and how they share, you know, what's going on, what part of the what part of the lesson or what part of the practice we're on, and they can tell you, and like, okay, so you just just don't go talk magically everybody know, like you guide them, the communications then.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you definitely have a lot of knowledge. I like listening to all your examples and stories. Yeah, I think you're an awesome uh educator. You lost knowledge. I was like, Yes, I wish I had an uh reading specialist when I taught first grade in kindergarten like you. That would be awesome. Like it's also important to have an ally, like somebody that says yes, like that has the skill, the abilities, and you're like, Yes, yes, support.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't know if it happened to you when um when I went through the um dual language certification um classes, it was there were a few terms, right? That yes, okay, we went to learn, but the most of the time it was just val professional validation. I feel like, yes, that's what it, yes, it works. And some of the notes and some of the books I might I I like if somebody asked for my books, like to borrow my books, they're full of my notes because I write my textbooks are full of notes, um, like connections or val, like I share validations, because um that that level of of um study takes into consideration the the path of multi-language learners and historically um the marks the the changes, right? Like if there is a legislative link change, then we have all the text uh print before um it's obsolete. So now we have new new people, new professors trying to get the theories in and adapt them to the new changes, and there's always that, but then there is always an innovator that comes with a new term or a new um concept, and and it just revolutionizes revolutionizes the the pedagogy or pedagogy of of our learners, and here we are educators always trying to to change um our practices for the better. So if you become a teacher thinking that that was your end, the the end of your studies, like no, that's like I mentioned, no, it's just the beginning. So my my commitment in education has been long and it is still going. Um my my family I shared, they asked me. In fact, yesterday, um my my niece asked me um something, and I said, Oh, my class is starting on September uh 10th. And she's like, What do you mean? I'm like, oh no, no, the students are like, but the students are starting after Labor Day, and I'm like, no, no, no, no. The students start, and I give him the date, uh, August 27th, 26th, 27th, depending if you're in kindergarten or not. But um I am taking classes, and he should like again? Like, yes, again. Um never ending. It's never ending, never ending. You have to continue it um finding ways to find your voice and your in your in your um not only in your professional area, but also making sure that your work becomes something that you enjoy doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's important.
SPEAKER_00Because there's it's a lot of work, like, you know, um being it, like I said, I like that you you asked me about the systems and what can um the other changes that do not rely on the classroom teacher, because we we always look for the teacher the scapegoat for everything that goes bad or something that is not working. And when it's working, usually the credit goes to the curriculum that they're using. And the it moves to the systems that this the district is using, and the bad scores in the classroom are usually the teacher who's not.
SPEAKER_02So which is sad, yeah. Teachers do need a little bit more acknowledgement on how awesome they're working and to feel more valued.
SPEAKER_00Because they they find the curricula, the curricula and they modify it or they're thinking, spending their driving hours or their um time with the families to find ways to make that curriculum different for your for their kids, right? For their students, or um they look for their colleague to say, hey, I have a student who da-da-da, and I'm thinking that I should do this, but I'm not sure. So they're just looking out for support or validation or or guidance. Um and so those are the the things that teachers do that do not get acknowledged enough, but they only want to see the results. And uh, when the results happen, it's like it's because we give them training, because we change curricula, uh, because of this, because professional development, because of all that. But they don't take into consideration what they're really doing in the classroom or outside of the classroom, because you know that doesn't work enough. Like having six, seven hours in a classroom, it's not enough time for us to find.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, some teachers, some of us, yeah, there's days where we work really, really hard, depending on the unit, the students, and so many variables. Um, this was fun. I'm gonna end the podcast because they have an hour limitation here.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I love talking to you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00No problem. Any tonight you are amazing too.